Kim Wardlow (00:02.53)
Hello, I'm Kim Wardlow and I'm your host for Navigating Life with Vision Loss. If you've been listening to episodes recently, you will know that we are in the middle of a series on sports. And so last week we were talking about different team sports and this week we are talking about aquatic sports. So swimming, kayaking, rowing, those types of things. And
and how those sports can be done by individuals who are blind or have low vision, any adaptations or techniques that are needed. And our guests today are both from Envision Blind Sports. Jillian Stringfellow is a program director, and Will Rastetter is a swimming coach there. So they are going to be instructing us, giving us some information on aquatic sports and how
blind individuals can participate in those sports. So welcome to both of you.
Jillian Stringfellow (01:08.782)
Thank you.
Will Rastetter (01:09.492)
Yeah, thanks very much for having us.
Kim Wardlow (01:13.058)
Just briefly, do you want to just say a little bit about what Envision Blind Sports does? It's not just aquatic, it's lots of different things. And maybe just expand a little bit on each of your roles or how you came to be with the organization.
Jillian Stringfellow (01:32.66)
Sure. So, I'm Jillian Stringfellow. I'm the program director for Envision Blind Sports. So, I oversee and manage every program that runs underneath our organization. know, our mission is to provide sport and physical activity to individuals who are blind or visually impaired to kind of promote that lifelong wellness aspect and peace. We service individuals of all ages. Our largest program is our Blind Sports Camp.
where that's the only one that we limit age-wise and that's seven to 18, but everything else is open to all ages. It was a nonprofit that was developed back in 2017, but our founder and executive director, Wendy Fagan, has been in blind sports for over 30 years. And Will and I got involved, he can explain his role a lot longer than mine was, but we've been involved way longer since it's been a nonprofit. We were just programming for kids in the area. And then we're like, you know what? We should make this legitimate.
and provide more opportunities. And so that's when it turned into Envision Blind Sports. And we've been doing something at least once or twice a month since then. So it's really fantastic. We do over 25 different sports and outdoor recreation opportunities with our participants. Like I said, camp is our largest one where we do it all in one week. And if we're talking specifically aquatics, we do swimming, we do kayaking, canoeing, paddle boarding.
tubing, we've done white water tubing, we row, so you name it, we do it. And if we haven't done it, please contact us because we want to do it. So that's kind of the overview of what we offer within Envision.
Kim Wardlow (03:08.812)
Right. And how about, you started out as a volunteer, correct?
Will Rastetter (03:14.286)
I did, yes. So I had pretty awesome and unique kind of opportunity whenever I was just, oh gosh, Jill, I feel like you probably might remember better than me. was either 12 or 13, something around that. I was really good friends with Wendy Fagan's youngest son, Ryan. And so she, one summer, had just asked if I could come help out at one of our sports camps.
To be honest, I had really no idea what I was getting into. I had never worked with a blind or visually impaired person before and never really been exposed to this community in general. And so I was kind of really thrown into the ringer a little bit. And that first summer camp that I did, I just immediately fell in love with it and knew that I really wanted to work with this community kind of for the rest of my life. And it kind of coincided with I'm a big sports guy, I love athletics.
to able to experience and adapt all these sports to these athletes who I consider good friends now. It's just an awesome opportunity to be able to continue to do and then also be able to learn. Like I said, I was a volunteer for so long. I was the same age group as a lot of our kids that attended these camps and clinics. So I had a fun opportunity to be able to participate under a blindfold and get to learn how to
participate within these activities and sports as somebody without sight. So it gave me kind of a good learning curve on how to teach, I feel like now. So yeah.
Kim Wardlow (04:54.904)
Thank you. So what do you think are some of the biggest misconceptions when people think of different aquatic sports and then they find out you're working with individuals who are blind or low vision that people have or that they're surprised about?
Jillian Stringfellow (05:15.182)
I was gonna say, I guess I could answer first. think not necessarily something specific, but I'll never forget one of the first programs that I ever ran for Wendy with Envision. Myself and a coworker, Amanda, we were partnering with a recreation center that was in the area and they had like an ice skating rink, they had a swimming pool. So we were gonna do like a multi-sport clinic.
And so we went in to try to train the staff like, Hey, like this is what we're going to do. This is how you adapt. were doing multiple things. We were putting them on ice skates. were doing blind ice hockey, a whole bunch of fun stuff. And I remember the first hand was raised. The question was, what are we going to do with them in the pool? And I was like, I don't, I don't really understand your question. So I guess it really dawned on me like, wow, I thought that you would have more questions, you know, on the ice rink or, know, any of that. was like, well, it's, you know, it's in a pool.
You know, it's contained. And I think that, you know, you tell people we're doing these really cool, crazy, you know, outdoor water, aquatic activities and their immediate responses. my gosh. Is that I didn't even know that you could do that. So it's really nice for, you know, myself and Will and everybody else to be able to like, well, it's just small modifications and we're up and running.
Kim Wardlow (06:26.861)
Yeah.
Will Rastetter (06:27.66)
Yeah, I mean to kind of piggyback off of Jillian, I feel like I get a lot of those similar questions of just like how in general and my usual response is like, I don't really do a whole lot different. Whenever I'm teaching somebody who's blind or visually impaired to whenever I'm teaching somebody who is, has full sight. It's a lot of the same techniques. It's maybe just a little bit more verbiage whenever you're actually explaining either the drills or what
activity we're doing. It's, yeah, really very similar in my opinion. So, yeah.
Kim Wardlow (07:05.846)
Okay, yeah, I could imagine people would, especially if you're out and not in a contained pool, if you're out in a more open body of water that people would be concerned about losing direction and things like that. What the motto there is fearless, do more. And what does that look like for somebody who's stepping into a pool or getting into a kayak or doing an aquatic sport for the first time?
Jillian Stringfellow (07:35.916)
Yeah, we love our motto, Fearless, More at Envision. I think it really encompasses what we're trying to accomplish, whether it is an aquatic sport or if it's any other sport that we're running. We're all about pushing boundaries and pushing barriers, I think, and just trying to get these athletes to experience more and push themselves to a limit. And I think within the aquatic setting, you know, we
One, think it's amazing. know, like I'll take camp, for example, we have over 85 athletes that came last year and they're from all over the country and we have different backgrounds, different ethnicities. We have inner city kids, we have country kids. And so it's really amazing to put them out on a paddleboard in a lake and have them understand like where they are and describe, okay, this is how we're going to stand up.
The joy and the experience that they're getting is kind of unmatched. It's one of our favorite days. think Will could probably attest to that as well. We also do a really long four mile kayak that is, it has a little bit of a current and it has obstacles. And you know, when we get done, I think that our kids really enjoy it. But I think talking to our volunteers, it's like, wow, these kids were fearless going down, just listening to everything that we had to say at every turn and pushing off of trees and,
I think that we just push boundaries and that doesn't, know, especially even, guess, in the water.
Will Rastetter (08:57.87)
Yeah, think too, water in general is just such a daunting thing to experience, especially for a blind or vision impaired person, because it's such a wide open space with kind of very limited, I guess, barriers to be able to ground yourself with. so having to be very vocal about where you're at, what you're doing.
And kind of like Jill said, the surroundings, even if you're on a big lake, just goes a long way to be able to kind of fear less and do more and focus on the activity rather than where you're at in space. And I think that's something that we kind of really try and hit home for is doesn't necessarily matter where you're at in the water. Just know that as long as you're safe, that we can actually be able to do whatever activity we have at hand and.
Everybody always does so awesome. And like Jill said, it's usually some of our athletes favorite days is whenever we're out in the water, in the pool, something like that.
Kim Wardlow (10:00.782)
What are the most common fears that your participants have when it comes to the aquatic sports?
Jillian Stringfellow (10:09.746)
Well, you could I mean, I can let you answer more of this. But I think one of the things that we see to especially I can take it from like our kids perspective, especially I think a lot of our kids aren't taught the proper way to swim. And again, I'll let we'll elaborate on that. And I think our parents have a fear of wow, like my my son or daughter doesn't understand swim strokes or you know, even staying afloat in the water and being buoyant all of those things.
so I think that fear comes a lot from our parents too, but you know, even adults with sight, there's, mean, I'm from Alabama and I was around water all the time and I learned how to swim, but a lot of people don't have that and don't have access to that.
Will Rastetter (10:49.334)
Yeah, 100%. What Jill said is like, it's something that not a lot of people have access to. And, it's a very daunting, scary thing to get in. And at end of the day, our world is mostly made up of water. So we got to be able to give these kids the opportunity to learn how to swim because there's going to be a time in their lives whenever they're going to come in contact with bodies of water and open water and just being able to be confident in that, is a tough thing to kind of teach. so.
Yeah, like Jill said, I think the biggest thing that we see for athletes is not really having the opportunity throughout their lives to be able to learn these strokes. And a lot of how we teach swimming is visual because you're laying flat on your stomach basically if you're on land, that's kind what it would look like or feel like to our athletes. And so being able to have them get over that fear of say,
You gotta get on your stomach and put your face in the water. It's not something that everybody's really eager to jump in and do to hold their breath for a little while and be in an awkward position that they're not normally in.
Kim Wardlow (12:03.022)
Yeah. And it sounds like and I sort of expected that some of those fears are the same, whether you have full sight, limited sight, no sight, just there's some fears around water for I think for lots of people. How do you encourage kids or participants that like, well, I'm just I'm not very athletic that feel not confident that that they'll be able to
to be successful or be able to complete the activity.
Jillian Stringfellow (12:34.584)
Well, I think first off, when it comes to our motto, mean, we've already talked about it, but fearless do more is like, feel like what we instill, it's like kind of what we embody at Envision Blind Sports. But I also feel, and especially again at camp, at any activity that we're in, you signed up to do this sport with us and we're going to do this sport and we're going to do it to the best of our ability and we'll make accommodations along the way and modifications when we need and we'll make adjustments.
A lot of us have adaptive physical education or physical activity backgrounds. And so we adapt on the fly. And so I think that when people meet us, we're really intense and super hardcore. I won't lie to you. Like this is what we're doing today. And we're going to, you know, we, we have pushed the limits a thousand times and I'll never take that for granted because I think what it does for our athletes is amazing. Cause they don't come to us and say, no, no, no, no, no. They're like, okay, I trust you. Like, let's do it. And I think that's a really great community that we've built and envision is.
you we have a really solid group of volunteers and we, you know, we've trained everybody, you know, in whatever aspect that we're doing. and so I think that we haven't really gotten a lot of that. And if we have, it's a lot even from parents too, that's like, wow, well, I'm going to send my son and daughter to camp, but I don't want them, or I don't know how I feel about doing this sport, this sport and this sport. So it takes a little bit of conversation, a little bit of, Hey,
watch some of these videos, I'll talk you through it, this is what we do, and then when they see the joy and talk to their kid or right after camp, then they're like, okay, this is for real and we wanna continue to do this.
Will Rastetter (14:07.064)
I was going to say too, like I think after, you know, so many years of us doing this, obviously we get a lot of kids that come back. so being able to build that rapport each year kind of helps, I don't know, me as a coach specifically to be able to more generalize each instruction, I guess, or each time I'm coaching with whatever group we are, and then say if we do have a new camper, a new kid,
within that group, I can kind of like pull aside and individualize whatever tweaks they need specifically. So that's been kind of nice throughout the years to have all of these kids returning to be able to build their confidence year in and year out as well as gaining their skills and having them fear less each year they come.
Kim Wardlow (14:51.374)
Yeah, and that sounds like the definition of a win can really change for each person. It's not just, well, I won this race. We were the first to get to the end of the kayak route or something. But there's lots of different wins that participants might have, just depending where they're at.
Yes. Let's talk a little bit more in detail about swimming. Will, so when you start with somebody who's a brand new swimmer, can you just kind of walk us through what you would do in some of those initial steps?
Will Rastetter (15:36.598)
Yeah, for sure. One of the things that I feel like I can sometimes get laughed at for with other volunteers that I like to do is before we even get in the water, I like to have everybody sit on the side of the pool and just learn how to control your breath. Holding your breath for a long period of time or for a duration of time in kind of different interval settings, just so can get comfortable with having for whenever your face is in the water, you're not also adding
like the tactual feeling of the cold water on your face, as well as the feeling of not being able to breathe. You're kind of already gutting out one of those steps. And so then you can kind of build off of that. you've hold your breath, then we'll put your face into the water after that and blow bubbles while you're sitting on the side of the wall. And then Jillian knows I like to play this game of
while you have your face out of the water, you get to still kind of breathe, but you hold onto the wall and we work all on kicking, stationary kicking where you're just getting comfortable moving your legs throughout the water as well as keeping like the correct body positioning, because your stomach is still parallel with the ground when you're doing that. And then slowly you add the face into the water, holding your breath.
and then slowly extending your arms further out away from the wall. So then after that, all we have to do is let go of the wall and start adding the arms, doing windmill motions. so definitely kind of break it down step by step as little as possible to the whole thing in general. And Jillian knows it kind of.
has taken different forms each year and it depends on which age group we're really working with, how intense we can get or how small we need to go of, hey, today let's just focus on getting our faces in the water and being comfortable in this setting of a big open space.
Kim Wardlow (17:39.79)
Yeah, I would imagine there would be some differences if you're working with adults, older kids, younger kids.
Will Rastetter (17:47.616)
Yeah, I mean we've got our really, really little ones who are obviously still in life jackets or floaties or waist belts or waist flotation devices all the way to kids who have participated in their school's swim teams who know each four strokes, are fully confident in the water. So it's a definitely wide variety.
I feel like my goal every year at camp is to at least teach one kid how to swim independently without flotation devices, or at least take a step away from what their knowledge was before they arrived at camp, which I feel like is usually pretty successful because getting, guess, those kids or like the little ones in general into water is usually pretty easy. They're usually pretty stoked to get active with some swimming.
Kim Wardlow (18:45.87)
They're ready to blow bubbles. Yes, for sure. little kids do. And then do you work as you are working with kids that have returned or as you said some of them are on the swim teams in their schools, working with them on refining their strokes, on endurance, on speed, those types of things as well.
Will Rastetter (19:09.24)
Yeah, a lot of what I focus on because we don't necessarily like ton of time to get down to the nitty gritty of say like an actual long form type of practice of like building endurance. It's more so stroke technique and being able to not only perfect freestyle, that's usually the main thing we focus on. then these guys and gals that are, you know, now in high school or middle school who have
been with us for while. A lot of times once we finish our progression of learning, whatever we are that day, they'll come to me and be like, can I learn how to do backstroke or breaststroke or butterfly? And then we can kind of refine those strokes and kind of add that to their repertoire of, hey, if I want to, I can try out for a swim team. All I need to do is like learn these or refine these new strokes as well as kind of learn stroke count.
know how long it takes me to get from one side to the other so somebody doesn't have stop me to turn around kind of thing.
Kim Wardlow (20:15.852)
And how do you teach the orientation to stay oriented in the lane and to safely approach the wall and make turns?
Will Rastetter (20:26.604)
Yeah. Again, that kind of varies a lot too, depending on obviously their vision as well as confidence of each individual. But I guess starting from kind of the basics, if it's somebody who says a B1 totally blind athlete, we will have, and like say, I guess a younger athlete will have a volunteer directly out in front of them.
they will be swimming backwards as the athlete is swimming into them. say each stroke they're taking, they can feel the volunteer's hand and all they need to do is just reach out forward and feel that hand in front of them. And then slowly as you progress, get older, you start to take away that hand and then you start to learn how wide the lane line is and trying to keep a direct straight emotion. It's just kind of like for
our athletes who are learning to use a cane for the first time. How do you keep in a straight line? Same thing, just kind of a lot of practice, have those barriers and know when you're starting to veer, when you need to veer back as well. And swimming is so nice, I guess, and the sense of a lap pool is having those lanes, you're confined into a pretty small space. So it's pretty easy to redirect yourself whenever you do start to veer off.
because you'll have that lane line to tell you, I need to move left or hey, I need to start moving more right.
Kim Wardlow (21:53.87)
Right. Yeah, very different than if you're in a lake or an open body of water. sure.
Will Rastetter (21:59.362)
Yes, that.
Jillian Stringfellow (22:00.706)
I was going say we also have, at each, especially at camp, but in any swim clinic that, that will runs or that we're a part of, also have tappers at the end of the lanes. so that when they get close to the ends, when they're one, like, you know, two strokes away, we tap them on the, on the shoulders so they know that they're coming to the end so that they can turn and go back to the end. So we'll has that support outside of the pool as well as in the pool for whichever, know, depending on if they're a B one athlete to a B three athlete.
Kim Wardlow (22:28.216)
Okay, great. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That would be very helpful. Is there a common mistake that you see, more common for participants that you see kind of more generally, or is it just very individualized?
Will Rastetter (22:44.756)
I would say it's definitely more individualized, but a very common mistake I do see is with breathing. a lot of kids, and athletes like to, whenever they breathe, lift their head straight up. Kind of, if you think of the stroke or the butterfly stroke, how you breathe straight forward. it's not as, effective. if you're swimming pretty much any other stroke, it's, definitely a lot more beneficial and you're
using a lot less resistance if you're breathing just to the side. So I feel like that's a big thing we try and focus on because it also kind of you lift your head up like that, more likely to swallow water, potentially go down the wrong pipe, you know, and then we have to stop, let out the cough. But then also that kind of lifting your head straight up can also kind of make you veer and run into like, then you'll have those running into lane line problems and then your stroke.
Fluency is kind of all cut off as well. So definitely the breathing to the side is a big thing that I like to preach for sure.
Kim Wardlow (23:51.131)
Yeah, yeah, that's a pretty key skill for most of the strokes.
If somebody is wanting to get started, is there like a first week plan you'd recommend or just they need to find a coach to work with, a trainer to work with to help them get started?
Will Rastetter (24:15.788)
Yeah, for sure. mean, I would recommend kind of even what I did to start my swim career was just go take swim lessons. mean, doesn't matter what your vision level is, go to your local YMCA, local pool, whatever it is, and sign up for swim classes. Even if it's, I don't know, what are they call them? Those little like minnow, shark, glasses, know, those types of things, like do it.
Always sign your kid up for those types of things because kind of like I said at beginning of this conversation, the world is made up of mostly water. So you're going to be in it at some point in your life and it's good to have at least the skills in your bag to be able to pull out and have that confidence.
Jillian Stringfellow (25:00.59)
I people listen to this podcast and it's like, it sounds so simple to go to the YMCA, but Will's correct. I know that there's a fear of, well, they don't understand how to teach someone who may have a visual impairment or who is blind. I think that's probably a common misconception, but you'd be surprised how many parks and rec, how many swim programs, how many gyms do you have someone who's adapted there?
But I can also tell you there's organizations and we're happy to do it, but there's also other organizations out there that are happy to help train. It's part of what we do at Envision Blind Sports is, you know, we actually have a young man who joined his swim team and the coaches didn't understand how to get him to participate in the meet. And so, you know, our boss went up there and worked with the swim coach and things like that. So there's a, there's a lot of,
or do some out of blind sports organizations or coaches like Will out there that are willing to kind of help some of these swim coaches that have probably never worked with someone who's blind or visually impaired before. So it's kind of a similar fix. So if that's something someone's looking for, I know there's some fear behind working with someone who may not understand the adaptations to provide, but there's a lot of resources out there to kind of educate these people. And like Will said, it's, know, mostly, you know, I don't pretend to be a swim coach.
That's not my expertise. I run all of our other programs. rely on Will to teach the proper swimming strokes and all of that. And so that's all it takes. And we can help provide kind of like that blinds aspect as far as accommodations are concerned.
Kim Wardlow (26:31.818)
Yeah, and so it sounds like kids can really take this and what they've learned outside of their experience at camp and into their schools. And I would imagine if you've learned to swim and you've you've felt like you've gained some confidence and accomplished something that that that could carry over into into other things too. I don't know if kids when they come back ever share stories with you about, you know, that
Learning to swim helped them feel confident in other areas of their life.
Jillian Stringfellow (27:05.1)
Yeah. And I was going to say, Will probably has some specific stories too, but I mean, even outside of aquatics, but within aquatics and swimming, it's part of what we do it as an envision is like empowerment and advocacy. And, you know, I, we expose these individuals, even our adults, you know, we try to expose them to as much as possible. So my hope is they find one thing that they love. And if that thing is swimming and you know, we had a young man that went back to his school and says, I want to join the swim team. And he felt empowered to do so and confident in his skills.
It's a really great thing because now he has more confidence at school and he's, you know, there's now his mom's going to all of his swim meets. Like it's a really great thing for them to find and be more active. Like what we do, I love what we do and I love what you provide. But the fact that he can get it all the time in his community and be a part of his school is absolutely fantastic.
Will Rastetter (27:52.834)
Yeah, I think too to add on top of obviously it opening the doors to be able to participate in athletics within your schools and stuff. know growing up, I was a very active kid. I had active friends. And so a lot of times what we would do in our rec leisure time would be different sports or swimming. For example, we would go to our local pool or, you know, we would go, for example, to the golf course or something like that. And so being able to give our athletes
access to not only our sports or competitive sports, but also to be able to do this stuff in their rec leisure time and enjoy it as a hobby rather than a competition, you know?
Kim Wardlow (28:36.558)
Well, and that really builds community where they're a part of their community and don't feel left out because of their vision loss. If they know how the adaptations need to be, I mean, they may need to do some education or their parents, but that can happen.
Will Rastetter (28:57.56)
Yeah, this isn't, I guess, specific to aquatic sports, but we just did a golf clinic a few months ago before the winter. one of our athletes in the group made a funny comment to me. We were like, I don't know, three or four holes in and he just kind of like tapped me on the shoulder and he was like, you know, I kind of get why people do this. he was just like, it was never in his wheelhouse of like activities that like.
he could do and like he could access to himself and just to have him be like, like, I can do this. It was, it's always cool to like have those experiences and be able to like share those with our athletes.
Kim Wardlow (29:37.186)
Yeah. Well, let's switch over to kayaking and canoeing and talk about what you do there and how what a kayaking day might look like or canoeing day might look like.
Jillian Stringfellow (29:52.8)
Yeah, so we are big on outdoor recreation and water sports and kayaking and canoeing are two things that we do quite frequently within camp and then another clinic throughout the year. So we at Envision, so we don't have a building, don't, know, we're a gym and people come or a lake and things like that. So we're really big on making partnerships and working with the community and educating, like I said previously. And so we work with a lot of parks and rec.
For paddle boarding, we work with a guy who has his own paddle boarding company. So we reach out to those local organizations to provide some of these experiences. With kayaking, we have a really great partnership with Pennsylvania Parks and Rec staff, and they do this for free, and we meet them out on a lake. And we teach the kids about the boat and the oar and how to properly put it in the water and just getting them out in that body of water.
you know, for our little dudes, we throw them in a canoe or a kayak with us, but for a lot of our older kids, we like to put them, if it's like a larger lake body of water, we'll put them in their single kayak and just give them, you know, specific directions and, you know, tips and tricks on, you know, where to put their hands and things like that. But a lot starts off land first, and then we put them in the boats and they kind of get out there. like I said earlier, one of my favorite things that we do, and it's probably one of the, more
I wouldn't say dangerous things that we do at camp, it is dangerous, I guess, in a way, is we do a four mile kayak down a really, it's a really great river, but there's obviously obstacles and you can't help when the current's higher or lower or trees fall down and stuff. And so it really pushes my volunteers to the limit with communication.
It is so empowering for everybody involved. And it's great because I think it's more exciting than getting out in the lake, which I love kayaking in the lake, very calming. You can rest, relax, but when you're on the river, you know, you're high alert at all times and kind of, you know, paddling against the current. So.
Kim Wardlow (31:48.866)
And how do you teach that communication? Because that would be so important to be able to communicate between kayaks or canoes to each other. So what participants would be listening for, what they would reply if you're trying to communicate, especially if you're on a river and it's not just floating along and smooth. And then they're dealing with different.
different obstacles or water conditions.
Jillian Stringfellow (32:20.254)
Well, I will say that first, and I learned a lesson a long time ago when we were looking, you know, we're a very, we're a volunteer based organization, and people sign up to volunteer. And then they get out there and I'm like, Wow, you, you can't kayak. what? Why are you here? Yeah, so we've had, you know, it's a learning process. And, but I will say, you know, one of the great things that we're blessed out at Envision is I have top tier volunteers. I'm sure every organization says that, but I have
Kim Wardlow (32:32.482)
Why did you volunteer to do that?
Jillian Stringfellow (32:48.64)
Adapted PE teachers. have O specialists. I have teachers of the visually impaired I mean I have OTs and PTs and they just come to us and they're so excited and they're sport oriented and so One that's really great for us because they already know how to adapt and how to describe for individuals who are blind or visually impaired But outside of that, you know, I think that we work, you know We work a lot on not over talking but giving what they need and try to experience it I think you know will can attest to a lot of this as well and each
athlete is different. And we learn that when we get them on the water. And so most of the time, it's like a one to two ratio, you know, making sure depending on the vision level of the athlete, if they have a hearing impairment, on top of that, we have a young lady who we, you know, have kind of figured out with her, she needs to follow she can see near the person if they're so far in front of her. So we put her in her own kayak.
And she gets a couple of cues from a person behind her, but she's following along and watching the person in front of her cause she can see the shape of them. so it kind of depends, you know, as far as cues are concerned, we talk about, you know, back paddling and paddling forward. We've let them kind of experience that. but again, I think it really truly does depend on the actual athlete and what their vision level is like. Cause you know, some of them see worse when it's bright outside.
problem with transitioning and we're under trees and you know, so it depends on what the lighting is, especially for some or peripherally or central vision. And we try to work with that as well. You know, if we have an athlete who has better peripheral, we might put someone on the side of them and kind of guide them that way as well. But I would say it definitely depends on athlete specifics for sure.
Will Rastetter (34:28.373)
Yeah. And I think to also add on top of that too, I know you had mentioned this Gillian, before you jump into a kayak in general, just making sure that, whoever is getting in understands, you know, the paddle cues like outside of the water, like when we say row forward, like, what does that mean? What does that look like? What does that feel like? So we can kind of get hands on, do hand over hand, tight practice before we get in the water is kind of throw them using these directional cues as well.
Kim Wardlow (34:59.146)
Are family members at the camps as well or just the kids?
Jillian Stringfellow (35:06.56)
So at camp, it's just our kids. actually don't allow parents to come because we feel like it puts it kind of hinders their experience, so to speak. You know, they can't just be kids without their parents around. But we do outside of camp, we open a lot of our camps and clinics or clinics and sport outings to family members as well. Like when we kayak, I actually make it a family event.
When we ski sometimes we make it a family event as well. We're obviously providing the guide, but our families are kind of near. And the one thing that I've heard from that is a lot of our families, especially for our younger kids, but really enjoy doing something together, right? So they didn't know how to adapt skiing or they didn't know how to adapt to the kayaking and they were scared to take their family member. We provide that, but I think we're a really great community. And as far as providing.
Every opportunity for families. have a lot of sighted siblings that wants to come and hang out with their sibling and do envision blind sports stuff. yeah, outside of camp, we really do encourage a lot of family members unless it's sports specific, like I said, but a lot of outdoor recreation stuff. invite families and to make it like a family event.
Kim Wardlow (36:13.144)
Are there ever issues where you feel like maybe with good intention, they're just, maybe they have some fears, the parents have some fears that they're a little overprotective or taking over, providing maybe more help where their child, if they were given a little bit, a little bit more independence, they might make a mistake, but they probably, you know, they would learn from that.
Jillian Stringfellow (36:37.006)
Great. I tell my parents all the time that call about camp, you know, I am not a parent yet. and I do not have a child with a visual impairment, so I can't sit here and say, I know exactly how you're feeling. Cause I don't. but you know, talking, Wendy Fagan or executive director is a mom and sometimes talking to her makes them feel better. But I think that's a lot of what we see is just.
Once the parents, like we, invite them to come to clinics throughout the year to even watch their child to see how we're adapting things and how, and who we are as people. And I think it really makes them a lot more comfortable with us. Because sending your seven year old who has a visual impairment or is totally blind to a week long camp with people you don't know is probably pretty scary.
But we really encourage them to come and watch and participate because I think there is a lot of fear. You you get that diagnosis when they're little, they have a visual impairment, they're going to be blind. And you you have all of these other barriers that you're tackling within school, it, know, all, you know, getting O services, like all of these things. And I think that sports and physical activity was really never in the forefront of their minds. And so when we come along, they're like sports, like that's not what we're thinking about in our household. And so I think it's really opened up.
It's been really great to connect with our families and them have like almost that aha moment where they're like, I get it. Like, this is fantastic.
Kim Wardlow (37:56.718)
So let's talk a little bit about your rowing program. And does that start indoors rather than actually
Jillian Stringfellow (38:07.446)
Yeah, yeah, we've done it recently. So we actually work with Three Rivers Adapted Rowing. It's in downtown Pittsburgh. This year we did it again. It had been a couple years since we have done it. We actually have a contact there who is fantastic and they do. They're actually wanting to get more people who are visually impaired involved in their program. But yeah, they start indoors with their URGs.
Well, they start upstairs with actual rowing machines like the ones you see at the gym to get to understand like the movements, which is great. And the kids love it and they race and our athletes, like even of all ages, we had, think our oldest at that event was in their sixties. yeah, they get upstairs and they're rowing. So they understand the motion and how far they're going and things like that. And then they take them down to like the lower part of the boathouse. And we do, it's like these ergs that have the seats and the actual oars in them. And
has the mimics the water and they sit in there and they work on the command. So there's, you know, the pilot in the front where they give the actual commands. It's actually a fantastic sport for individuals who are blind or visually impaired because it's very rhythmic and it has very specific instructions and descriptions for it. So you say one thing and then they command and then they throw them in the boats and they get out there as a team and work together and.
It was great. We actually had a really good experience this summer with them and we got them to go up and down the Allegheny.
Kim Wardlow (39:31.258)
wow. How fun. Are there additional cues or different cues that are given if you're not relying on vision? Or is it the same?
Jillian Stringfellow (39:33.507)
Mm-hmm.
Jillian Stringfellow (39:42.988)
No, it's the same. That's what I learned too. Again, rowing was not ever my expertise. And that's why we love working with Three Rivers Adaptive Rowing. No, it is the same. A lot of what they do is just giving some of those corrections. Like sometimes when you push like the pull, pulling your knees and pushing your arms out at the same time is kind of a hard concept. So that's why they work on that within the boathouse. But then also sometimes, you know, your paddle or your oar gets like flipped a little bit. And so giving them a commands, but no, it's the exact same one. then
We're on a boat next to them and they're giving commands with like a big megaphone, which is pretty cool.
Will Rastetter (40:19.01)
Yeah, I know I did this a number of years ago and I learned to row with all of our athletes. Like we did it seamlessly together. I didn't have a separate conversation or anything and it was all the same instruction.
Kim Wardlow (40:34.552)
So then do you have lots of volunteers on roaring days? What role do they play? know Will you were a volunteer in different aspects. So was roaring one of the sports that you volunteered with?
Will Rastetter (40:47.436)
Yeah, I did it a number of years ago. Unfortunately, I didn't do it this past summer, but luckily being a volunteer, mean, Wendy and Jillian kind of opened it up to all of us, whatever activity we're doing or whatever clinic we're running, they really opened it up to all of us to be able to come in and help to learn as well as teach after. So there's always a portion as a volunteer where we're getting instructed of good ways to
teach our athletes as well as like learning the sport from our coaches in general. And then from there, we're able to relay that information to our athletes. So I can say I have learned an incredible amount of different things from different sports activities, whatever it may be, purely because of Envision. So it's not only does it help our blind and visually impaired athletes, it definitely helps our volunteers as well.
Kim Wardlow (41:45.294)
That's great. So if folks have this initial clinic, then if they come back, is there a path of progression for rowing?
Jillian Stringfellow (41:58.294)
Yeah, so again, we at Envision, we're kind of more about exposure and we do, like I said, swim, we do swim clinics throughout the year and a couple of kayaking. But when it comes to some of these, like rowing and paddle boarding and things like that, what's really great about working with Three Rivers Adaptive Rowing is that they, this is what they do. That's the only thing they do, right? They row constantly, they're outgoing, they're working on their teams, they're working on, you know, getting in the water a lot and all of that. So,
If it's been really great, we developed these partnerships. So for example, Maureen is the lady at Three Rivers Adapted Rowing. We're in contact now. So whenever they have experiences outside of us doing something with Envision, I pass that along to all of our athletes. We have a couple of athletes that go to them regularly. And so they kind of progress with their team and especially because obviously rowing is their sport and what they do. We're kind of here to offer those experiences based on, like,
you know, we went to a rock climbing place the other day and they're doing some adaptive climbing. So we're also about spreading community awareness to get some of more of experiences. And so, yeah, they have a full calendar's worth at rowing of, you know, getting on a team and working on skills and they have multiple coaches to kind of help towards that progression if that's a sport that they want to kind of continue to do and work at.
Kim Wardlow (43:20.216)
So that sounds like that's sort of a great thing for folks that participate in your programs. It's a way for them to try different sports and see what they like and learn. And then if they want to continue on, can either you've already connected them with an organization or you can connect them with an organization if they want to continue.
That's great. Well, I appreciate you providing so much information for us and on the aquatic sports, because I know, like you said, people like to get out in the water. You know, they're curious about it. Just some takeaways. What's one safety habit you would want everybody to adopt?
Jillian Stringfellow (44:08.974)
and say, well, you're the swim coach. I'll let you take that one.
Will Rastetter (44:11.406)
Yeah, I mean, I was always told to always, always, always growing up as a kid. If you're getting in the water, never do it alone. Make sure there's always somebody there with you. Even to this day, as a 25, almost 26 year old, I don't know the last time I was ever in water by myself. So just always having that extra someone there to make sure and God forbid something go wrong. There's somebody there to either save you or get help real quick.
Yeah, that would be my best advice.
Kim Wardlow (44:42.444)
Yeah. What's a confidence tip that translates across those different sports?
Jillian Stringfellow (44:50.242)
Ooh, a confidence tip. I think it's just in general, think that, I think, it's hard for me to pick just aquatics. I feel like what we're doing across all sports is pretty empowering, regardless of what you're doing. And I think we see it every day. It's just like, try it, do it, because I think that that leads to confidence. And I think that's what we see the most as they come and they're like, well, I can't do it. My PE teacher said I can't do it. The lady at the gym said I can't do it.
And I just, that's our biggest advice is just try it because then when, our athletes actually do it and succeed their own expectations and Excel, it is such a confidence booster for them. And it's, it's amazing.
Will Rastetter (45:33.742)
I think for me specific to aquatics, also speaking from experience, it's a lot of times such an individualized thing. And so for them to be able to say like, I'm doing this completely on my own and progressing to being by myself and doing this is just such a huge confidence booster for them. And I love seeing that because then like, say, for example, the next year that they come, they'll be like, this is what I learned. Like, look at how well I can do it now.
what I've learned over this past year. So that's always really a cool confidence booster.
Kim Wardlow (46:05.994)
Is there a moment or an experience that you can think of that you just thought, this is why we do this. This is why vision exists.
Jillian Stringfellow (46:17.003)
Oof.
Will Rastetter (46:19.502)
I don't know if it's possible to choose one thing.
Kim Wardlow (46:21.88)
She's right.
Jillian Stringfellow (46:22.606)
lot. There, there is a lot. I, I was going to say I have one that's not really aquatics related. feel like I've seen, you know, throughout the almost nine years that I've been with the organization, I've seen a lot, but we had this instance, um, we had a clinic and we did a high ropes course one time and, um, we've had this athlete and she struggled with confidence. She struggled with, she was a teenager.
I'm totally blind and she was constantly, you she's very anxious and, know, just not comfortable in her own skin and really feeling, um, very confident. Like I said, and she was on this really hard part of a high ropes course where she had to jump off of a ledge, swing midair by herself. And then in front of her, she would grab onto a rope, right? it's like big cargo net. know it sounds insane. We were safe. promise. Um, but at that time.
her dad happened to get there because it was towards the end of the course. And her dad shows up and just like stood there and watched her in awe and was like, I never knew. He was like almost in tears because he's like, I just never could have even imagined that this was possible. So it's moments like that when these, when these athletes blurt out, like we'll said, like, wow, like this is so cool. I couldn't believe I did this. Or when the parents, know, just get it. It's, it's life changing to experience sometimes it's, it's amazing.
Will Rastetter (47:45.92)
Yeah, I know at the end of each of our sports camps, at the end of the week, you know, all the parents kind of reconvene and we have kind of a big ceremony at the end to congratulate all of our athletes and just recognize everybody that participated and.
Talking with the parents afterwards, exactly like Jill said, just telling them everything we did that week, showing them the pictures, all the videos. Everybody's mouths are just dropped wide open, like they could catch flies. Like, my kid did that? That's always so rewarding. It's like, yeah, you can get them to do anything you need or want. Just give them the confidence to do it, and they're there.
Kim Wardlow (48:24.33)
If folks want to learn more about Envision Blind Sports, how do they find you and contact you?
Jillian Stringfellow (48:31.062)
Yeah, so you we have a website, Envision Blindsports.org, so they can go there and look at all the amazing things and the upcoming things that we're doing, whether it's a clinic, a camp, a fundraiser, all of that. You know, we, like I said, are a volunteer based organization. have an annual golf outing where we raise funds and we participate in the Pittsburgh Marathon, but we're always taking donations to kind of help alleviate the costs for, you know, all the craziness that we do throughout the year and have it more affordable for our athletes.
But you know, you can also reach out to like myself specifically. So, you know, it's just my name, Jay Stringfellow and EnvisionBlindSports.org and ask any questions that you want.
Kim Wardlow (49:10.774)
Right. Well, thank you so much for taking time to speak with us. And I'm sure our listeners have learned a lot about aquatic sports. And hopefully this will encourage all of you out there just to try, try something. I think that's come up over and over in our conversations of just give something a try and see if you like it, see if you want to continue. And it could really.
Build some confidence and it might even change your life. Who knows so encourage folks to do that next week. We're getting out of the water We're going to be doing martial arts and talk about martial arts and some wrestling too. So please come back and Listen to that episode as well as always I hope that the information Jillian and will have provided to you today helps you to navigate your life with vision loss Thanks